Louise
blue belt
Q: When people imagine jiu-jitsu, they’re probably not picturing you. Tell us why.
Well, let’s see. I’m going to be 70 this year. I also didn’t start this until a couple of years ago, and I only do self-defense classes. So I think, you know, people imagine Giselle on the mats with Joaquim, or people who have done other kinds of martial arts. I never did anything like that.
Q: So what brought you here?
I was invited to take part in a trip sponsored by the Department of Defense. It’s called the JCOC and is essentially for civilians with no military connections. There were 19 of us from all over the country, from all different walks of life. They were looking for people who might be able to help them in two ways. One was an effort to increase enlistment by recruiting folks from the entertainment industry. And then there were ordinary people who might be in a position to recognize the value that veterans bring to the business world, who could help promote hiring them, and even work more closely with the military on corporate leadership.
We started the trip in Washington, D.C. and ended up in San Diego. During that time, we were embedded with every branch of the military. The trip was very physically challenging in ways I had not expected. It made me realize there are things I can do that I never thought possible. This ended up being a bucket list item I didn’t know I had. It was intense; we were up at 4:30 every morning. On Army Day, we trained on the Ranger obstacle course at 5:00 in the morning when it was still dark. We shot machine guns once, which I can’t say I loved. We also shot pistols and the Marine who helped me was great. I ended up as one of the best shots because he was such a good teacher. It was incredible. The military men and women we met were so dedicated and inspiring.
In Colorado, we had self-defense training by the Army Rangers. One of them asked, “Do any of you have martial arts training?” A handful of people raised their hands. They asked what type, and one of the guys said, “Brazilian jiu-jitsu.” The Ranger said, “That is excellent training for what we’re going to do today.”
After the trip was over, our cohort stayed together on Slack. The guy who had been doing jiu-jitsu wrote to us and said, “Some of you asked me about my BJJ training, and I just wanted to tell you that it’s for everybody. Kids can do this. Older people can do this. But more importantly, it’s a really wonderful, inclusive environment. Very encouraging. I do it in LA at Renzo Gracie Academy.”
I read that and thought, “Oh, that’s so interesting.” Then I Googled and saw there was a Renzo Gracie Academy on the Upper West Side.
I had planned my retirement. I knew some of the things I was going to do, including teaching. But I also wanted to do some fun things. And I wanted to challenge myself. So I came to take a class. I took a trial jiu-jitsu sports class, and it was the most intimidating thing I had ever done. And then life intervened. I didn’t exactly decide not to come back, but I didn’t return for a long time. But at the time I took that class, Luca said to me afterward, “You know, we have a women’s self-defense class. You might want to consider that.” Because he could tell how intimidated I was.
It took some time, but I decided to give it another try, because it remained interesting to me. Actually, it was mind-blowing.
So I came back for the self-defense class. Luca was teaching it, and Daniel was assisting. Daniel looked at me and said, “I remember you.” He recounted the class I had taken and said, “I was paired with you.”
And of course I remembered him! It was the only time I had ever done a jiu-jitsu class. I remembered him, but I was shocked that he would remember me. These are drop-in classes—it’s not like you make an appointment.
I did the self-defense class, and it was equally intimidating, by the way. It required a kind of mind-body connection that I didn’t have. I found it mentally very challenging. Apart from just physically moving in a certain way and getting it right, understanding the basics of stance and leverage and all of that, it was the mental part. Especially when you do something on your right side and now you’ve got to do it on the left.
Q: I tell people I’ve got a bad side and a worse side. So what made you stay this time?
Luca, Daniel, and the other women in the class were so incredibly supportive and encouraging. If you haven’t interviewed Jie, you should; she is really amazing. She’s such a great role model. She does it with such style and grace. She hasn’t been coming to self-defense as much recently, but she did for a long time.
A lot of the other women who started at the same time as me no longer take the class, but there’s a core group who come regularly. Almost all of them also do sports training. Lauren competed as a white belt! A number of us (including Fred) went to Brooklyn to cheer her on. She’s a blue belt now. Lisa hasn’t done sports training, but she’s currently training for Hyrox. I’m the one who does the least physical work. I always loved to walk. When I was younger, I ran occasionally, but I stopped because my knees started to complain. I did strength training for a while. I did Pilates regularly, and I still do. I stopped strength training for a period, but I’ve gone back to that since.
I’ve come a long way since I first started at the Academy, but I’m still terrible.
Q: You’re a blue belt. That signifies a certain level of competence.
Well, you know, I actually told them I didn’t want to get promoted because I felt it wasn’t right.
Q: That usually means you’re ready to be promoted. But you and I don’t know anything about jiu-jitsu anyway. Who are we to say whether you should or shouldn’t be promoted?
Well, I can say I’ve come a long way. There’s a level of fear I have about getting hurt, because the few times I’ve hurt myself—due to my own stupidity, you know, falling badly or whatever—it takes me a long time to recover.
And I don’t want to get hurt because then I’d have to stop. I don’t really view this as physical training, though it certainly is. Fred, who now teaches the class, also focuses on sports technique, so it’s not just a self-defense curriculum, and I love it. But there are some throws and other techniques that are still very challenging for me. I’m working on that. I enjoy that I’m still working on things, that I still have things I want to achieve. I also know that time’s not on my side.
So my hope right now is that I might start taking some of the sports classes. I don’t think I’ll ever roll. I just don’t think that’s in the cards for me. But I shouldn’t say never.
Q: What did you retire from?
I’m a lawyer. I was the North American General Counsel for the French company LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton. My husband is a lawyer as well, but he’s in private practice.
Q: How long have you been on the Upper West Side?
A long, long time. I moved to New York City for graduate school, and I’ve been here ever since. I’ve lived in my current apartment for over 30 years. The Academy is about a mile away.
Q: Do you remember the feeling as you walked in? Did you turn around a couple of times, or did you just come down?
No, I had no idea what to expect, so I just went for it.
Q: You’re a very adventurous person.
I am an adventurous person. There was one woman here. The rest were all men. And Daniel immediately grabbed me and just—honestly, everything he told me to do, I thought, “I can’t do this.”
I can’t do this.
This seems very intimate.
I’m not sure I like the idea of doing this.
This just seems like a little too much.
But it’s funny how that goes away quickly. And it did intrigue me. And what intrigued me even more was how welcoming they were. I walked in and almost everyone came up to me and shook my hand and said, “Welcome.”
Q: Jiu-jitsu doesn’t work without a partner. We need to support each other.
That’s true. But again, I hardly look like the likeliest person.
Plus all the kids! An entire generation of kids. There are so many. A lot of the moms in self-defense started because their kids trained.
I find that the days I come here are a treat for exercise. Generally, I’m here three days a week. Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday.
Q: Have you become friends with the women who train here?
I mean, we’re different age cohorts, but they’re all incredibly lovely. And by the way, the women—not just the self-defense ladies, but all of the women—are part of a WhatsApp group. And there are a couple of people who put together parties and outings that look so fun. People are always nice and say they’ll partner with me if I stay for the sports training class. I’m not quite there yet.
Q: How does your husband think of this? Or is he used to you being self-assured and headstrong?
I mean, yes and no. I think he’s proud of me, but he’s also constantly saying, “You better watch out. Be careful.” And if I come home and tell him, “Oh, I kind of feel like maybe I bruised my ribs,” he’ll say, “I think maybe you should stop.”
The person who’s really impressed in my family is my grandson. He’s 16.
Q: He should be training.
He does ultimate frisbee. That’s his sport. His twin sister does varsity softball and volleyball and the youngest does basketball.
I had posted a story on Instagram when I got my blue belt. I don’t think it even said anything. And my grandson Tommy said—he calls me Lulu, which is funny because Fred calls me Lulu—“Lulu, is this you? Is this really you? You are a badass.”
Q: Well, you are. That blue belt is a real accomplishment.
I’ve said to people: the day I go back and start doing a sports class, I’m going to take out my white belt and put it back on.
Q: Do you think you could tap someone out with a rear-naked choke?
I don’t think I could tap someone out because I’m not sure I have the strength. You know what I mean? I know how to do certain moves, and I talk to myself as I do them, like, “Okay, step one, grab the collar.”
The problem is, they’re fighting you, right? It’s not like they’re sitting there going, “OK, do it.” So no, I don’t think I could… I don’t think I could, yet.
Q: I don’t have any expectation that my daughter could fight off a 30-year-old male, but I can almost guarantee she won’t get into the situation. Because my kids have situational awareness. They’re not paranoid, but they’re always watching other people; they know where they are. And I believe that comes from jiu-jitsu.
Oh, I totally agree. I mean, I did not take the self-defense class because I was concerned about my safety in New York City. I want to make that clear. I’ve never been worried about New York City. I went to high school in the city. I’ve lived here since graduate school, when it was a far more difficult place.
Q: Did you get mugged?
Absolutely, but not that many times, because I would never take the subway without a group of people and was always watchful. You always have to keep your eyes open.
Q: Any last thoughts on jiu-jitsu, or what the gym is building here?
Well, I would encourage women of any age to try it. I really would. We all have our own physical limitations, but that doesn’t mean somebody who hasn’t been doing sports for a long time—even at my age—couldn’t progress in a different way than I do, for sure. The people here are truly lovely, and I think that’s what makes it work, right?
And the instructors. We had Luca and Daniel at first, then Luca and Edgar for a short time, then Daniel, and now Fred. Each of them brings a tremendous amount of not only knowledge, but also genuine support. You feel it. I know Fred wants us to succeed, each and every one of us.
I wish Luca could see me now, because I’ve improved. I think in the beginning, he probably thought I wouldn’t last. I don’t say that like, “I proved them wrong.” I wasn’t trying to prove anything to anybody except myself. But there were a couple of times I almost quit. Once somebody got me right in the throat, a choke hold gone wrong. And it was like the whole week I felt it. And I thought, “Can I really go back?”
But honestly, I’ve never met one person here from whom I didn’t feel a tremendous amount of goodwill. Not one. Everything I heard from my JCOC colleague about Renzo Gracie was spot on. It’s a wonderful, inclusive, and supportive community. And that is a rare thing.
This is part of a weekly series on the people who make up jiu-jitsu culture.
